3dLME and 3dMVM output sub-briks

Dear AFNI experts,

I have some basic questions about the resulting file after using 3dLME or 3dMVM on my resting state data (DMN correlation maps). I know that it is possible to add covariates (within subj vars, between sub vars and quantitative vars) and labels to specify interactions . You can expect main and interaction effects from those covariates when you look at the sub-briks of 3dLME/3dMVM output.

My question is, what is the meaning of these sub-briks? Are these the correlations (main/interaction effects) between the covariates and my resting state maps (data which I am working)? or are these the results with the covariates removed?

I think that if I am looking for correlations but I previously established glt and glf labels, then I should convert those F and tstats to r scores. Is that correct?

My confusion arose because I was using 3dtest++ with covariates before. It seems that covariates in 3dtest++ and covariates in 3dLME/3dMVM work different. Am I right?

Thanks a lot,
Karel

Karel, it would be more helpful if you provide the 3dMVM/3dLME script and name a few effects in the script you would like to clarify.

Hi Gang,

I attach an example. I have two groups (young vs old_adults). I am interested to know how to treat factors/covariates/interactions as effects of interest and also as a confounds. Is that possible?
The followings are the effects of interest/confounds that I would like to clarify:

a. Factor (gender)
b. Covariate (age)
c. Interaction between factor_covariate (genotype_and_some_measure or gender_and_age)
d. Interaction between factor-factor(genotype_and_gender)
e. Interaction between covariate-covariate (age_and_some_measure)

Are the glt Labels correct (see code bellow) basing on the effects that I established? Then, If I want to treat those as confounds, should I add more labels? If so, how to specify that in the syntax?

My last questions are:

  1. Is -bsVars correct basing on the presented idea?
  2. When I have two groups, should I put qVarsCenters for each one?
  3. After looking at 3dMVM examples I am still not sure what is num_glt.

3dMVM -prefix Example -jobs 6        \
       -bsVars  "group*gender*genotype*age*some_measure"  \
       -qVars  "age,some_measure" 
       -qVarsCenters '28.3 61.9, 1.5 1.1' (for both groups?)              \
       -num_glt ? \
# effects of interest:
# a. Factor (gender)
# b. Covariate (age)
# c. Interaction between factor_covariate (genotype_and_some_measure or gender_and_age)
# d. Interaction between factor-factor(genotype_and_gender)
# e. Interaction between covariate-covariate (age_and_some_measure)
       -gltLabel 1  a_gender -gltCode 1 'group : 1*young -1*old gender : 1*male -1*female'  \
       -gltLabel 2  b_age -gltCode 2 'group : 1*young -1*old age : '  \
       -gltLabel 3  c_Interaction_genotype_and_some_measure -gltCode 3 'group : 1*young -1*old  genotype : 1*TT -1*NN some_measure : '  \
       -gltLabel 4  d_Interaction_gender_and_genotype -gltCode 4 'group : 1*young -1*old  gender: 1*male -1*female genotype: 1*TT -1*NN '  \
       -gltLabel 5  e_Interaction_age_and_some_measure  -gltCode 5 'group : 1*young -1*old  age: some_measure: '  \
-dataTable                                                       \
          Subj group gender    genotype  age    some_measure        InputFile                      \
          Sub1 young  male      TT         35      1.2       suj_1_melodic_resamp.nii.gz'[0]' \
          Sub2 young  female   NN         27      1.4       suj_2_melodic_resamp.nii.gz'[0]' \
          Sub3 young  female   TT         25      1.3       suj_3_melodic_resamp.nii.gz'[7]' \
          Sub4 young  male     TT         35      1.44      suj_4_melodic_resamp.nii.gz'[17]' \
          Sub5 young  female   NN         25      1.3       suj_5_melodic_resamp.nii.gz'[8]' \
          Sub6 young  male     NN         35      1.3       suj_6_melodic_copia_resamp.nii.gz'[0]' \
          Sub7 young  male     TT         20      1.4       suj_7_melodic_copia_resamp.nii.gz'[0]' \
          Sub8 young  male     NN         25      1.9       suj_8_melodic_copia_resamp.nii.gz'[7]' \
          Sub9 young  male     TT         25      1.8       suj_9_melodic_copia_resamp.nii.gz'[17]' \
          Sub10 young  female  NN         35      1.6       suj_10_melodic_copia_resamp.nii.gz'[8]'  \
          Sub11 young female   TT         27      1.9       suj_11_melodic_otracopia_resamp.nii.gz'[0]'  \
          Sub12 young female   TT         25      1.4       suj_12_melodic_otracopia_resamp.nii.gz'[0]'  \
          Sub13 young male     TT         35      1.5       suj_13_melodic_otracopia_resamp.nii.gz'[7]' \
          Sub14 young male     NN         28      1.5       suj_14_melodic_otracopia_resamp.nii.gz'[17]'  \
          Sub15 young female   TT         25      1.6       suj_15_melodic_otracopia_resamp.nii.gz'[8]'  \
          Sub16  old   male    NN         80      1.0       suj_16_melodic_ND_resamp.nii.gz'[3]' \
          Sub17  old   female  NN         75      1.1       suj_17_melodic_ND_resamp.nii.gz'[16]' \
          Sub18  old   female  NN         68      1.1       suj_18_melodic_ND_resamp.nii.gz'[5]' \
          Sub19  old   male    TT         68      1.1      suj_19_melodic_ND_resamp.nii.gz'[18]' \
          Sub20  old   female  NN         72      0.6       suj_20_melodic_ND_resamp.nii.gz'[1]' \
          Sub21  old   male    NN         68      0.7       suj_21_melodic_ND_copia_resamp.nii.gz'[3]' \
          Sub22  old   female  TT         80      1.1       suj_22_melodic_ND_copia_resamp.nii.gz'[16]' \
          Sub23  old   male    NN         75      1.2       suj_23_melodic_ND_copia_resamp.nii.gz'[5]' \
          Sub24  old   male    TT         72      1.23       suj_24_melodic_ND_copia_resamp.nii.gz'[18]' \
          Sub25 old   female   NN         80      1.4       suj_25_melodic_ND_copia_resamp.nii.gz'[1]'  \
          Sub26 old   female   TT         51      1.0       suj_26_melodic_ND_otracopia_resamp.nii.gz'[3]'  \
          Sub27 old   female   NN         75      1.1       suj_27_melodic_ND_otracopia_resamp.nii.gz'[16]'  \
          Sub28 old   male     TT         75      1.1       suj_28_melodic_ND_otracopia_resamp.nii.gz'[5]'  \
          Sub29 old   male     NN         68      1.2       suj_29_melodic_ND_otracopia_resamp.nii.gz'[18]'  \
          Sub30 old   female   TT         72      1.3       suj_30_melodic_ND_otracopia_resamp.nii.gz'[1]'

Thanks a lot,
Karel

I am interested to know how to treat factors/covariates/interactions as effects of interest and also as a confounds. Is that possible?

This is a too often a misconception. The model does not care which variables (or effects) you want to focus on when reporting the results. In other words, it is the way you formulate/construct the model, not your interest, that matters.

Are the glt Labels correct (see code bellow) basing on the effects that I established?

A label is just a name. It is the way you specify each comparison that matter. For example,

-gltLabel 1 a_gender -gltCode 1 ‘group : 1young -1old gender : 1male -1female’ \

looks for the interaction between group and gender.

If I want to treat those as confounds, should I add more labels?

I’m not so sure what you mean.

  1. Is -bsVars correct basing on the presented idea?

Seems fine.

  1. When I have two groups, should I put qVarsCenters for each one?

group is a categorical, not quantitative, variable.

  1. After looking at 3dMVM examples I am still not sure what is num_glt.

Number of GLTs. It’s explained in the help.

Dear Gang,
thank you very much for your reply.
So, every time I formulate a contrast, the model will provide me with the result of that particular contrast after eliminating the effect of the remaining factors/variables included in the model. Is that correct?

every time I formulate a contrast, the model will provide me with the result of that particular contrast after
eliminating the effect of the remaining factors/variables included in the model. Is that correct?

Karel, the word “eliminating” is inaccurate to describe the situation to say the least. In fact, you cannot “eliminate” the effect of any variable in the model; instead, you can control that variable (e.g. in those GLT specifications in 3dMVM or 3dLME as you’re asking here) at a particular value (e.g., center or mean if it’s a quantitative variable) or the average across all levels (if it’s a factor). I hope this clarifies the situation.

Thank you so much Gang! after clarifying the inaccurate term “eliminating”, the main idea is starting to make sense for me.